"beliefs and actions are all we CAN judge a person on. "
yeah, but precisely because astrology is soo "vague", nobody has so far managed to either prove it wrong or right, so basically u're labeling people as "wrong" or "right" according to ur impulses, which is unfair, and unethical.
It's the same as teenagers using music genres as criteria for spiritual enlightenment.-"What? U don't like Metallica? U're such a moron.."

And astrology can strip u of illusions, if u are willing to see. U can't wait for it to poke u in the eye. The world's greatest diamonds remain unpolished.

"And I would say that if you want to be happy and have a minimum of worries astrology would be your bag of tricks, but if you want spiritual fulfillment even most astrologers will tell you you're barking up the wrong tree. It doesn't give you "higher truth." It doesn't stop you from living a lie."

well, it definitely gets u a lot closer to the truth than other completely irrational systems of belief. And believe it or not, it does keep u grounded. If u strip most people out there of their social context and ladder, all that's left is a skeleton.
Astrologers can do without it and still stay focused.

But, ya know what, I don't care if u consider it or not. It's ur loss, anyway.

there are sparks of divinity IMO in every living thing. Maybe they come from testosterone and serotonin, why not? nature doesn't have to use inexplicable magic to be divine and full of magic.

Thinking there are sparks of magic in people is only anthropocentrism if we believe we are the only ones with those sparks. Just thinking humans have sparks does not make us self centered. Recognizing our own divinity is not the same as thinking only we are divine.

"Testosterone and serotonin become "sparks of divinity" in no other species but ours."

Eh, that COULD be because they don't sit around talking about this stuff. Or about anything, really. Not so far as we can tell.
And if the whales really ARE talking to eachother how do you know that's not what they're saying?

"i think another difference is that you want to classify astrology as a religion, while some want to categorize it as a form of science, but it's neither of those to me... it's"

leslie,
I think that's an interesting point. I do classify astrology as a belief system so I loosely group it with religion, which I also consider to be a belief system. "belief system" as in a structured philosophy and practice that is adopted by a group, usually with a long history behind it. not as in a person's individual beliefs.

it sounds like you use astrology as a tool to assist in a path of your own creation. whereas the vast majority of people I know who practice any kind of religion use it as an excuse for avoiding any responsibility for guiding their own lives. they don't bother examining their actions or assuming control of themselves or their lives, because their religion has already set their path and does the "thinking" for them. Your approach sounds much more beneficial. :)

That's about how I view astrology as well. It's a series of patterns and symbols. Sometimes oddly accurate, occasionally not, and frequently highly open to interpretation.I can't see it as a religion as there is not worship involved nor does astrology address the afterlife or have any central organization, doctrines, dogma, etc. I don't view it as a science because it is not, nor does it show any signs of becoming, empirically based.
For me astrology is an interesting set of patterns that can lead to interesting questions and discussions. It's a goad for further thought more than anything else.

well, I'm sorry to hear you have that little logic.

"A murder is just nature's way of handling over-populating. "

*L* I'm sure I'm reading that wrong.
coz otherwise by that logic suicide is also nature's way of handling over-population, and so are birth defects and mental illness. just like rape is just nature's way of handling insemination. yeah, that works. ;)


"Christianity-which is the system that still guides human laws and society today. "

perhaps in one tiny corner of the world. but I hear there are all these crazy countries like India and Africa and Egypt and Japan where humans also exist. ;)

I've written a very long reply to this yesterday, but apparently it never "made the screen".
So, here it goes again:

"as an elder to a younger woman who clearly has a good brain at her disposal, and an interest in sorting out how things work, i encourage you to step back, watch and listen, and learn from the people around you about the great varieties of ways to view the world. astrology is cool, but it's not the ultimate or only answer..."

Ok, I'm not implying astrology is the "ultimate answer", I'm just implying it's intriguing enough to be CONSIDERED. And I have done and still am doing a lot of listening.
There might be tons of ways of looking at the world, but the result is the same in the end-an image of the world that u can make practical use of. So, why choose to follow the curved line between point A and B, instead of taking the straight one? Saves time.

"there is a process as we mature, and we all go through many stages. one of those stages is the late adolescent i-have-it-all-figured-out stage, and it sounds like that's where you are with this astrology is the be-all-and-end-all stance. i have vague memories of that time in my life, when i was so confident that i knew what was what... it was exhilarating, and i loved that time in my life (though i wish i could remember it better ;^) but it is a way of thinking that falls quickly by the wayside when you have more life experience that show you the range of things that are possible. and soon, you find yourself amused at your naivete when you were younger."

Actually, I don't feel like I have it all figured out, and probably never will. Only an idiot is always 100% sure of himself.
But that's precisely why I wouldn't neglect this very insightful "pseudo-science". It shows u a side of life that nothing else does, except maybe numerology-to a much lesser degree.

And I think u are mistaking getting caught up in the whirl-wind of life for maturing. Just because 10 years from now I'll be over my head in shit that needs immediate attending, it doesn't mean astrology will cease to exist.
In fact, that's one of the things that make me still believe in astrology-when I look at people who are all caught up in their day-to-day issues, and see how they are expressing their chart energies even more clearly than those of us who are used to take one step back and actually look at ourselves every once in a while, I realize that this is so friggin' accurate!

"so maybe you can check back in 10 or 20 years and let us know if you still believe that murder is nature's way of handling overpopulation? and that christianity is the only system of morals at work in the world today? i think that more life experience will show you why these things are not true."

I didn't mean to say Christianity as in the belief system itself.

But the world is still under the influence of 2 milleniums of monotheist religions that have taught us all "right from wrong" and that we all the chosen breed that should rule the world and use its resources.
And even without realizing it, these mentalities persist and many are infiltrated in the very legal systems which guide our societies.

They are fading away, but it will take time for all the debris to be cleared away. Maybe a century, maybe more.