To be or not to be.....

topic posted Tue, February 20, 2007 - 1:43 PM by  offlineAschleigh
If only that were the only question.

So you have two choices:
1) you grow up in a 2 parent home, financially great, small town, sheltered. Nothing really happens to you , nothing great, nothing terrible. You float through life pretty unmolested. You are content, you are loved and supported. But you have no depth, no intimacy. No haedache, no triump. You have parents, loves, friends. You have good but superficial relationships . You have a good job. You don't love it but it pays the bills. You have no artistic desires . Basically you wake up fine and go to bed fine with no bumps in the road.
2) You have a dysfunctional family. You have to take a lot of time and effort to overcome it. You struggle with addictions, depression, etc..
You yearn for connection and get upset when you can;t have it. You are content seldom but passionatly agry, sad, joyful, honest the other times. You love life sometimes and sometimes you want to die. You travel, you yearn to create artistically. The are high highs and low lows.You gain some perspective, you gain some depth. You live like today is your last day and wak up the next day and regret or forget about yesterday. You have no idea where things are going to lead you but you're pretty sure they will be interesting . You think deeply and love deeply and are not physical or emotional ok a lot of the time.
Do we even have a choice about these things? Are our paths in life decided before we are born? Do we get to change them mid-stream?
To Be or not to BE, that is the question.
posted by:
Aschleigh
Los Angeles
  • Re: To be or not to be.....

    Tue, February 20, 2007 - 2:00 PM
    If only that were a question.

    Sew I only halve two choices? I am grateful for what I halve, and I halve a lot.

    1) I grow up in a 2 parent home, financially great, small town, sheltered. Nothing really happens to me , nothing great, nothing terrible. I float through life pretty unmolested. I am content, I am loved and supported. And I have no depth, no intimacy. No haedache, no triumph. We all have parents. I have loves, friends. I have good and superficial relationships . I have a good job. I don't love the job and I pay the bills. I have no artistic desires . Basically I wake up fine and go to bed fine with no bumps in the road.

    2) I have a dysfunctional family. I have to take a lot of time and effort to overcome myself. I struggle with addictions, depression, etc..
    I yearn for connection and get upset when I can't have my connection with myself. I am content seldom and passionately angry, sad, joyful, honest the other times. I love life and I die. I travel, I create artistically. I am the high highs and low lows. I gain some perspective, I gain some depth. I live like today is my last day and wake up the next day and regret and forget about yesterday. I have no idea where I am going to lead myself and I am pretty sure I am going to be interesting. I think deeply and I love deeply and I am physical and emotional. Okay, I am a lot of the time.

    Do we even have a choice about these things?

    No. Only in my response do I get to make a choice. And, my choice is to watch. And breathe.

    Are our paths in life decided before we are born?

    Do we get to change ourselves mid-stream?

    To Be or not to BE, that is a question?

    Be and be well,
    Mark
  • Re: To be or not to be.....

    Tue, February 20, 2007 - 2:04 PM
    I would choose exactly the life I've had. It was a mix of those, though I have never wanted to die.

    I think the trick to life is to figure out what is us...and what is what we do. Because I think most pain comes from trying to change who we are...or feeling helpess to change what we do. I totally believe that no matter how hard we try we can never change our basic nature and that no matter how old we are we can change how we do things and shift our whole lives.
  • Re: To be or not to be.....

    Tue, February 20, 2007 - 7:10 PM
    Aschleigh,
    It strikes me that this in an incredibly narrow view of the nurture and results question. Not everyone who grows up in a 2 parent family is simple and bored and missing life. Not everyone who grew up in a dysfunctional family is shiftless and unable to enjoy life. You can be in either familial situation and end up like either of those. You can also be in either of those situations and grow up happy, alive, and thriving in life.

    There are infinite choices and we as young adults and adults make choices that lead us in that direction.

    For myself it was in fact my dysfunctional family dynamic that gave me the skills and abilities to become happy and thriving in life today.

    I am neither of those choices.
  • Re: To be or not to be.....

    Tue, February 20, 2007 - 10:48 PM
    something in me, something that i think existed before i was born, chose the latter path...
    something at the core of my being was not ready or willing to live a mundane life.
    there was something more for me to learn, to experience, to feel, to express,
    and it wasnt going to happen in a small town, secure, with nothing to challenge me...
    so my path has been much more diverse, lots of ups and downs, lots of wandering around the countryside,
    nurturing hurts, poking around, rising from numerous ashes, seeking something more...
    and all in all...
    i wouldnt have it any other way...
  • Re: To be or not to be.....

    Wed, February 21, 2007 - 9:00 AM
    "So you have two choices:"

    I reject 'em. Neither sounds very healthy anyway. I choose "C".

    "Do we even have a choice about these things?"

    Of course.

    "Are our paths in life decided before we are born?"

    Depends on who you ask. If they aren't, then we captain our own ship. If they are, then it's beyond our ken anyway. I think it's wisest to not try applying the Anthropic Principle to micromanaging the live of one human being. 8)

    "Do we get to change them mid-stream?"

    Only if your answer to that question is "well, of course". Otherwise, no. ;)
    • Re: To be or not to be.....

      Thu, February 22, 2007 - 1:05 AM
      > So you have two choices:

      It is indeed a very narrow set of options.

      Really, I think it comes down to a philosophical question - do you need pain in order to know what happiness feels like?

      If everything always felt great, would you know that it felt great, or would it just feel like mediocrity?

      Does pain bring about the ability to feel happiness?

      Honestly.... I'm not sure.

      But Angel is right.... there are infinite options.

      How much suffering would you be willing to endure, in order to experience greater degrees of happiness?

      I'm 36 years old. And at this point in my life, my answer is "not much". I'm happy, and don't really look forward to the thought of intentionally suffering in order to perhaps find greater depths of happiness.

      What about the rest of you?

      > Are our paths in life decided before we are born? Do we get to change them mid-stream?

      I struggle with this one. I don't really believe in fate, but I do believe that how we're raised does "program" us, and from there things have largely been determined.

      For a while, I was proud of myself, in that I managed to escape from the corporate life and take a path less traveled - both literally and figuratively. But, now I look back at it, and I was programming to be a rebel. I was programmed to fight authority, and to head down different paths. And so, I don't think that I deserve much credit. I'm just following the path that was determined for me.

      However... while I'm not sure that I have done it, I do think that it is possible to change our paths. How to do that? I don't know.
      • Re: To be or not to be.....

        Thu, February 22, 2007 - 4:17 PM
        I think a lot of my path for given to me from my mother who had a dyfunctional family and lots of ups and downs but discovered recvoery and 12 step programs and introspection and gave me the idea that knowing myself and having a certain kind of self awareness was better than always being placidly happy. I don't think I could revert to the other kind of life, no depth, smooth sailing, etc...
        I am trying to find a balence however. Seeking relationships that don't trigger that drama/co-dependant part of me. Financial responsibility, which was was many of my mother's woes, well the lack of financial responsibility. Also avioding situations that cause needless drama. Preventitive health instead of waiting for an emergency.
        My Path is different than my mom's too in that I've learned from her and don't necessesarilly need the pain anymore to learn about the happiness. But I do think having some bumps in the road of life has taught me to appriciate the up times more. And also to appriciate the down times, they are all temporary.
        All the really great people have had hardships, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther, Gandi, Oprah. We learn about who we are from the way we deal with difficulties. I'm a stronger person for having my deperession and other challenges .
        • Re: To be or not to be.....

          Fri, February 23, 2007 - 9:38 AM
          if you have a core belief that the only two options are drama/pain/bumps = strength, feeling joy, growth...or...no drama/no serious hardships(who has that anyway?) = bland/boring/unfullfilled/nogrowth then I think you will always create drama and pain for yourself where you don't need too.

          I don't think that is the option at all. I think life will bring you the challanges you need. Maybe the challange you need is to find a way to get your own momentum, or to figure out how to be with yourself in the quiet times, or to accept peace and rest...and you have things easy for awhile. Maybe your challange is to find peace in the chaos and things are hard for awhile. But one is not better than the other, one is not growth while the other is stangnant. It is about what happens in that space. We need challanges to grow and we also need peace and life will bring them to us. If we ignore challanges it brings us then we do not grow...but ignoring the peace it gives us to heal and grow in also sabatages us, there must be rest to heal around the new strength. If we create problems so that we can feel like we are working hard in this life or feel like we are growing we are not learning the lessons life would bring us because we are distracted by our own crap.
  • Re: To be or not to be.....

    Fri, February 23, 2007 - 1:18 AM
    Hamlet, Act Three, Scene One!

    As regards your description, I don't think it's quite fair, because I must take liberally from both categories to properly represent my own life. Consider:

    I grew up in a two-parent household in a comparatively small town, but plenty happened to me. I made my own choices, had to deal with bullies, tragedies, accidents (both fatal and injurious), heartaches, etc. I became emotional, poetic, creative, and capable of great depths, had good friends, had throbbing love affairs, fine relationships, and am personally capable of deep passions. I awaken each morning on a firm mattress ready to seize the day.

    To be or not to be? That is the question, indeed!

    However, take heart in what Shakespeare wrote directly after that immortal line:

    "Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
    The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
    Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
    And by opposing end them?"

    Nothing is gained without risk. Only by taking a risk in a noble cause can we achieve something. And stepping out our front door to make our destiny everyday counts as a noble cause. At least in my book...!



  • Re: To be or not to be.....

    Fri, February 23, 2007 - 4:46 PM
    it certainly is a very limited choice, since most lives are more complex (and most families are dysfunctional anyway). and i have a feeling that option one is rather a myth, too.

    but...

    given the choice between a peaceful and uneventful life with no passion or creativity, and one that is more precarious but has more excitement, i have to say i go with the second choice... in fact, i left a life that resembled the first choice a number of years ago because one day i realized it simply was not enough.

    i want adventure. i want passion. and i know that i am willing to risk the low-lows to experience the high-highs. as i age, i am more in search of peace and tranquility, but that is not the same as boredom. i have no interest in superficial relationships, but i no longer make room in my life for relationships with drama, either.

    and you ask if our lives are decided before birth? of course not. you have choices, you have free will. you may have certain things to work with, but you always are able to make new choices and change directions. thank god, it's what has made my life so amazingly kick-ass so far, and it really is only getting better.
    • Re: To be or not to be.....

      Tue, February 27, 2007 - 8:03 AM
      >>do you need pain in order to know what happiness feels like? <<

      I honestly used to believe that you did. I lived my life on the Monorail, no ups or downs to speak of. No one ever beat me or molested me. My parents were divorced, but civil. I didn't party or do anything reckless as a teen. Married my high school sweetheart, had babies....

      Then I got divorced.

      From there my life went a little crazy, but I was behind the wheel. I tried things out, shocked people and then settled down into what my life is now. I'm pretty happy with where I am. I have more work to do, but I'm a pretty great person.

      I wouldn't change anything about my life.

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