maybe it would be more accurate to say I am against the concept of marriage before sex. I totally accept whatever decisions people make for themselves. But I think that sex is like a magifying glass for relationships, personalities and connections...so I can not see how telling people not to have sex(and by have sex I don't just mean penis in vagina sex, but sexual intimacy and connection) before making what is supposed to be a life long commitment to someone is irresponsible IMO.

so individuals make your own decisions whatever they may be, but I think teaching the concept that sex before marriage is bad is wrong. I can't really think of any reason why someone on their own without indoctrination would wait till they were married for sexual intimacy(remember I'm not limiting that to PIV sex) that wouldn't be a problem during the marriage. But maybe I'm not thinking of something...and in the end my most basic belief is that people need to think for themselves and do what they need to do. So of course even if I don't understand it I would respect someone making that decision for themselves.

Okay, personal stuff first so you understand my perspective: I am a recovering evangelical. So I grew up with all this crap. I did not have PIV sex until I was married (the rest of it is a long-ass story I posted elsewhere already). I don't really regret that decision, most days. Some days I do, or I think it was a joke because like SV pointed out, there's a lot more to sexual intimacy than PIV.

I have *almost* no use for evagelical Christianity at all anymore. That said, I'm actually going to play Devil's Advocate (ha ha ha) and tell you their side of the story because I know the story and I lived in it for a long time.

Evangelicals believe that sex before marriage is wrong, as in sinful. They also believe that sins can be washed away by the forgiveness that Jesus bought for his followers when he died and rose again. (Oh I can't believe this is all coming out of my mouth -- er, fingers). That idea of washing sins away is big. What you did in your past is not supposed to be held against you in the present. However, where virginity is concerned, once you've "done it" you can't physically undo it. But if it was a sin, you should be able to get rid of it, so... enter secondary vriginity. I don't THINK it's about pretending or dishonesty as much as it is about claiming your right to be forgiven for your past. The message I got during my teen years is that if you HAVE had indescriminate sex it's never too late to reclaim your values, beliefs, choices, whatever... certainly in other cultures women who had lost their virginity out of wedlock were/are treated as spoiled goods. This moevement, believe it or not, was and probably still is intended to overcome that. The message is: you are not spoiled. There is always a second chance to do the right thing.

The kicker, I suppose, is in the definition of what the "right thing" is. They think they know, so that's what they go by. I see things differently now but I still "get" the intended message. And I kind of like it. I like second chances. I like knowing that a mistake does not have to haunt, spoil or be a black mark on me over for life. I can pick up, learn, move on. Believe it or not, that's a message I got from the evangelical church. The difference now is that I think that gift is there for every single human being, not just pretty white people who profess Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

My earlier post also states what I think about the church's take on virginity. So I hope you will be able to see what I AM defending and what I am NOT. I do not defend the movement or its message, but I think I can defend the (albeit misdirected) intent behind it.

One of the reasons I got out of the church was because I got sick of people judging people. So it pains me just a little when I see people outside the church acting a lot like people inside the church, making blanket statements and judgments. Letting go of judgment has been a huge part of my journey "home". I'm only just beginning.... and second chances have saved my life. :)

Thanks for reading! and for making me think...