The Pain of Authentic Living

topic posted Wed, March 28, 2007 - 8:13 AM by  ♫KatieM♪
Is it ever okay to be fake, for example, to keep the peace? To avoid conflict or painful consequences?

Or is it better to tell someone they hurt you? Even if there's no hope of changing their behaviour, it just seems... inauthentic, at least to me, to encounter a person who has been a real shit and smile and say "hey, how's it going?" Or to accept their politeness and niceties as having any authentic value whatsoever. I think it's much preferable to say "You know what? I dislike you, intensely. I have nothing good to say to you. I would prefer that we cut the crap and do only what we have to do to get along for the sake of these awkward circumstances. But don't be nice to me. It's not consistent with who I really know you to be."

Where is the line between keeping the peace and acting civil and inauthentic, two-faced behaviour? I find myself struggling to respect those around me who say one thing and do (or don't do, for that matter) another.
posted by:
♫KatieM♪
Canada
  • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

    Wed, March 28, 2007 - 8:54 AM
    There are a lot of ways to be in such circumstances. Some folks paste on the saccharine smiles, and most of us know that's no sort of solution. Others lose their social skills and rage against others. Again, most of us know that's no sort of solution, either.

    We find ways to be in the middle, find ways to perform the minimum required duties without acting in a way that damages that interface. We might FEEL like punching someone, but we know that if we did so, there would be legal repercussions. SO, eventually, our thinking brain takes over, the grownup part of us, and that part says "yes, you WANT to punch him in the head, but if you do, then the next custody hearing won't look so good, so be minimally civil, do your business, and cut."

    Or, if you prefer, "lie back, close your eyes, and think of England."

    As far as the other person acting in an acerbic way, well, there's not much one can do to control other people. Consider the alternatives: maybe they want to throttle you, but they do this instead. Not a bad situation, all things considered. Heck, it's probably especially good, because, well, you know how much fun it can sometimes blackly be when someone offers us an opportunity to spray venom? Maybe it's better this way. Venom burns your tubes.

    At least that's what gets me through my spots.
  • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

    Wed, March 28, 2007 - 12:06 PM
    this is one of those questions, i think, that is being presented in general terms, but would really be more valuable if answered in regard to a specific situation. but i'll take a shot.

    when someone hurts me, i look at it and be honest about whether they meant it, or whether my buttons were pushed, buttons that exist entirely separately from them. if it is just that they hit a sensitive spot, then the thing to do is acknowledge that to myself, own it, and not punish the person who unknowingly pushed my button.

    but if they knew what they were doing, and the behavior is ongoing, and they are simply someone i do not want to have in my life, then own that too. there are people out there who are asses, and whose behavior is not welcome in my life.

    when i find myself in conflict with those people, i tend to tell them what's up. i have been known to say "listen, it's clear that we don't like each other much, so let's minimize our contact, ok?" -- most of the time, when i stop feeding any kind of energy between us, those people become invisible to me. they don't exist.

    is it ok to be fake to keep the peace? sometimes, if it's my peace that i'm worried about (and i work hard to keep my peace), and that's the only way to get through it, if it's a brief encounter.

    but if it's something ongoing, to me, i need to be clear about it, and if there is something i can do to make it work better in the future -- even if it is to request that we just ignore each other -- then i'll do it. and if it's ongoing, that someone seems to be out to get me, or to do two-faced things, then i work to get that person and that kind of interaction out of my life. life's too short for that kind of shit.

    but again, a specific situation that you're struggling with might need a different approach.
  • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

    Wed, March 28, 2007 - 2:25 PM
    I think there is ground that is respectful of the situation and the other people around and not fake. You do not have to smile or act like everything is ok when things are so very very obviously not ok.

    How about treating this person like a stranger? a stranger you have no interest in getting to know. Not someone you have any bad feelings toward but not someone you have any relationship with either. In some ways that is what they are sometimes right? someone you thought you knew...but now realize you did not and that you in fact do not want too know them.

    So a vague nod as opposed to the evil eye and glaring at them as you pretend to ignore them but really shoot holes of fire through thier skull...oh hmm that sounds like an urge I would have(o: If they ask how you are, saying "fine" because we all know fine means Fucked up Insecure Nerotic and Emotionally wrecked and let's face it...in those situations that is either true or you are actually fine. Or maybe you can say "wonderful" because if you look beyond the moment you are blessed. and hey it doesn't hurt that you can say so sincerly and it might just drive them bonkers that you mean it(o:

    depending on the person and how they are letting them in on this might make you feel better. Tell them simply "I won't make a scene but I can't pretend that I'm ok with you. I'll try to keep my distance." and walk away.

    any more specific of situations you wanted suggestions for?
  • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

    Wed, March 28, 2007 - 4:28 PM
    I read lots of questions. Let's stop being "nice." Nice is sick. The pain I feel is in continuing to try to hold on to the lie. I get a big payout from this bluff, but is it worth it?

    > Is it ever okay to be fake?

    COMICALLY... Sure, when I am acting! I usually communicate beforehand/afterhand that this is acting -- it is not real. Although, the joke often reveals some deep hidden truths -- things that I wouldn't "normally" talk about. Sometimes, we need an icebreaker and sometimes we need to cool down...

    > Is it ever okay to be fake, for example, to keep the peace? To avoid conflict or painful consequences?

    KHARMICALLY... Yes. It's a terrible pokerhand, but there are lots of chips on the table. Things are escalating and so-called honesty isn't working. Perhaps, it's time to say "You are right" regardless of who is right. It depends on how big of a pot is on the table. Is it worth continuing the drama/fight/etc..? it's pretty easy to tell I am faking this smile. Perhaps, my bluff isn't working. Let's stop escalating our drama. I've already hit bottom, I am better off letting this go. I fold.

    > Or is it better to tell someone they hurt you?

    Yes. And, I sound like I am blaming someone. What is my truth? I engaged with this person and they hurt me (and perhaps, they might continue to hurt me), do I need/want to continue to engage with this person? Is this relationship worth it to me? Someone is hurting me, this a form of abuse? And, I continue to engage with this abuse, am I abusing myself? I need to "Stop." Do I need to call in a third party?

    > Even if there's no hope of changing their behaviour, it just seems... inauthentic, at least to me, to encounter a person who has been a real shit and smile and say "hey, how's it going?"

    Sounds like a story to me.

    > Or to accept their politeness and niceties as having any authentic value whatsoever.

    This also sounds like a story to me.

    > I think it's much preferable to say "You know what? I dislike you, intensely. I have nothing good to say to you. I would prefer that we cut the crap and do only what we have to do to get along for the sake of these awkward circumstances. But don't be nice to me. It's not consistent with who I really know you to be."

    This also sounds like a story to me. I have no control over someone else's behaviour. I take responsibilty for my own my behaviour. I would say what you said to someone else who has actually agreed to listen to me. Posting it here is a start. How much of my anger is being projected with these words? I honestly need to fully let go of my anger without hurting myself and without hurting anyone else first. To me, in speaking from a feeling of groundedness my words are more honest.

    > Where is the line between keeping the peace and acting civil and inauthentic, two-faced behaviour?

    This also sounds like a story to me. I am not here to peacekeep. I am not here to act unless it's a really good harmless joke.

    > I find myself struggling to respect those around me who say one thing and do (or don't do, for that matter) another.

    I respect that you find yourself struggling.
    • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

      Wed, March 28, 2007 - 5:41 PM
      I feel like I Lost someone I love becuase I couldn't help myself from being real. The real me is angry and sad sometimes. He couldn't deal with it. If I had kept it causal, all smiles and fun times I might still be with him. But I had to test it , see if he could go to some unpleasent places with me, with us together. We are not together anymore.
      I also have had to test my mother in the same way. She doesn't give up on me, thank god. Sometimes we need a break from each other, it's so intense, but I refuse to be unreal with her. And I refuse to not notice when she's being unreal with me.
      Now those are intimate relationships. I have friends and quasi-friends that I don't expect to go to the depths with. I can like them a lot as people but I know that kind of intimacy is not on the table with them.
      It comes down to wanting to be loved and respected for all of me, not just the nice parts of me. But not everyone is going to love me , only the very special few.
      Also , I think it's a great example , the co-parents who have to be nice to each other in order to co-parent effectively, to put their wants aside for the health of thier children.
      I wasn't too keen on my mom's third wedding, but I had to show up as to not cause major disruption in the family. She would need to show up at my wedding even if she didn't want to. And even for this ex or my low level friends, I would choose to be there for them, unless I had something else I had to be at.
      I grapple with when to be totally authentic and when to keep some stuff to myself and see what happens. I tend to errr on the too much said, too much expressed side. Holding back is usefull often.
  • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

    Thu, March 29, 2007 - 8:35 AM
    Fake is not authentic. But that's not really your question here. Your question is how do I deal with this person. But you're putting it in the context of authenticity.

    Being authentic is being however you feel in the moment. Now that doesn't mean you have to be rude or aggressive or arguementative - it just means you have to be real and true and honest about yourself and how you feel.

    You can't control others actions - only your reactions. You can't control some elses feelings, but that doesn't mean you have to be ok with how they treat you.

    Be honest with yourself and how you feel. Be honest with others. You don't have to be mean but you also don't have to be nice. Tell then what you think and feel in a way that's factual rather than blaming. Show them that you can be mature and adult and manage yourself in a polite and non-dramatic way.

    If they don't follow your example politely remove yourself as much as possible - or set boundaries on interactions.
  • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

    Thu, March 29, 2007 - 8:54 AM
    Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the wisdom I find here. :)

    There IS a specific context (or trigger, anyway) for my question, so I am guilty as charged, but the truth is (a) there is actually more than one person or circumstance I am thinking of and (b) the details would take WAY too long to write out and involve a lot of drama, which I am really trying to grow past, and honestly everything that has been said here has helped me tremendously.

    So thanks. And don't stop here if you have more to say. :-)
  • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

    Sat, July 28, 2007 - 1:41 PM
    I think theres multiple versions of honesty.
    My friend was in the hot tub with a sexy lady, the lights were dimming, she was taking off her bikini....
    She asks him "so, do I look good?"
    And he returns-"You would look better with 10 fewer pounds"
    Was he honest-Yes. Very much so.
    Did he get laid-No, of course not.
    Did he really, really, really want to get laid and think she was one hot momma (in all honesty)-Totally.

    Maybe there are short and long term versions of honesty-there are feelings that are very honest to one part of you and not to another. You could be completely honest to your true feelings for someone and say "Yeah, your fat, or I dislike you intensely" but then you might have to see them at work and that wouldn't be honest to your desire to keep the peace at your workplace.
    So, I guess maybe there is overall honesty/momentary honesty.
    • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

      Mon, July 30, 2007 - 1:18 PM
      I don't buy it. If the first thing that pops into your mind when someone askes you if they look good(why oh why would someone ask that?) is that you'd look better 10 pounds lighter...then that is their focus, whats wrong with things not what's right...because no one asked "how would I look better" That reaction tells alot about him, and the honest is good because the point is not to get what you want...but to give people honest information to make their choices from. Did he need to tell her that he thought she could lose weight? no, but did she need to know that he thinks that way? yeah I think so.

      telling someone you dislike them intensely might not be or seem *compatable* with your desire to keep peace at work...but your desire to keep peace at work isn't about honesty. That is when you have to figure out how to make the pieces fit. It's not honesty warring with it's self.
    • Re: The Pain of Authentic Living

      Mon, July 30, 2007 - 3:34 PM
      actually, i think your friend's "honesty" served that woman very well. because in his honesty (as sv pointed out), he revealed that he is superficial and selfish, someone who looks for what's wrong, vs. what's right, and that he would make a horrible choice as a lover to someone who's not into compulsive dieting or being around men who like to complain if they gain an ounce, and (the least of his troubles, i'd think) as someone who has no filter between his brain and his mouth.

      the more i think about what kind of person would even *think* of saying that, the more obnoxious is is.

      he did her a favor. and i can believe he wanted to "get laid" but bullshit that he thought he was one hot momma... if he did, he never would have chosen to insult her, because anyone who can't predict that his shallow selfish remark would be a turnoff, clearly isn't operating even from a lowly place of selfish desire, but instead he operates from a place of self-righteousness and criticism.

      he also has confused his opinion for a fact... if he were truly honest, but aware that his opinion was just his opinion, he might have said "honestly, no offense, i prefer anorexic women with their ribs showing" and he would have been talking about himself, and not being critical of her.

      fundamentally, with just a few words, he revealed himself as opportunistic and critical. she wasn't asking for his assessment of how she could make herself fit his narrow idea of perfection, she was asking him if he was into her. and he told her that he wasn't.

      this reminds me of a thread ashleigh started on the sexy man tribe about whether it's possible to change people. this is a great example of someone who looks at other people in terms of how they don't measure up to his expectations. not a very happy place to be, since you're completely doomed to disappointment.

      being honest doesn't mean being cruel, nor is it an excuse for being selfish or controlling. this tribe is named "impeccable" honesty because we created it as an alternative to the tribe called "extreme" honesty where people interpreted that to mean that rudeness or cruelty was defensible because, hey, it's the truth. honesty is not a defense for rudeness.

      in a work situation, personally, i encourage people to call a truce or come up with agreements with someone they don't get along with. and if it's so bad you can't even sit down with them and say "hey, we dont have to be best friends, but let's agree to be agreeable while we're at work" then it's probably time for a new job. life's too short to work with people you really don't like.

      i don't agree that there are multiple versions of honesty... i believe that honesty is something you understand for yourself, an internal conversation -- and then there are multiple levels of how to *communicate* what you think, after factoring in all of the other elements, like who you're talking to and how you want them to feel when you're done. your friend is a good example of people who can't make that adjustment.

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