Advertisement
Why do you think we have so much trouble with the idea of changing people?
As in " you can't change someone in a relationship, you have to accept them as they are" .
We change people all the time. I have heard several parents say that their children saved their lives, because they had to get it together to be able to parent. Living with an alcoholic spouse for 20 years changes who someone is, just like living with a totally loving supportive person can change who we are after 20 years. It can go either way, "bad" change, " good" change. The alternative is stasis, which is impossible if you continue to breathe.
Why do people deny that you can change a person, when we do it all the time? Particually children, but spouses, siblings. We change those around us by being us. For better or worse, I am a particular person ( me ) by having my mom and not another mom , or particular ex boyfriends and not others.
A long time ago I asked "how do you ask for change in your relationship? " and many ( not all ) responded that they don't ask for change, ever. But if change is inevitable, why not ask for the kind we want? Is it the responsibility of this power that bothers some? Is it considered disrespectful to ask for change ( instead of just living it) ?
As in " you can't change someone in a relationship, you have to accept them as they are" .
We change people all the time. I have heard several parents say that their children saved their lives, because they had to get it together to be able to parent. Living with an alcoholic spouse for 20 years changes who someone is, just like living with a totally loving supportive person can change who we are after 20 years. It can go either way, "bad" change, " good" change. The alternative is stasis, which is impossible if you continue to breathe.
Why do people deny that you can change a person, when we do it all the time? Particually children, but spouses, siblings. We change those around us by being us. For better or worse, I am a particular person ( me ) by having my mom and not another mom , or particular ex boyfriends and not others.
A long time ago I asked "how do you ask for change in your relationship? " and many ( not all ) responded that they don't ask for change, ever. But if change is inevitable, why not ask for the kind we want? Is it the responsibility of this power that bothers some? Is it considered disrespectful to ask for change ( instead of just living it) ?
posted by:
|
Los Angeles
|
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Changing People?
Wed, July 23, 2008 - 2:34 PMi think you are confusing making someone else change to accommodate you with being a catalyst for someone else choosing to change.
we all affect the people around us, and we are all affected by the people around us. it's one of the reasons i tell people that the quality of their life will be created by the people they choose to be around. want to bring out your kindness? surround yourself with kind people. want to bring out your adventurous nature? surround yourself with adventurous people.
but we simply cannot change other people to suit our desires. it's not possible. we just don't have that power. sure, we might make some demands that someone might accommodate, but that's not real change... demanding that someone speak to you a certain way is entirely different than having that person choose to change their communication style.
gandhi said it best: "be the change you want to see in the world." the only only only thing that you have the power to change is yourself, and when you embody what you want in the world, then you will indeed influence others as well... but if you're thinking that you are actually some super-powerful person who can force others to change, then you'll be missing the truth of it. -
-
Re: Changing People?
Wed, July 23, 2008 - 5:14 PMWhat Leslie said.
When people say you can't change people, what they really mean is you should never go into a relationship expecting to change someone. The reason they say that is because #1 it isn't fair or ethical and #2 because it never works. Yes we all change each other...but never in the way we can foresee or control.
-
-
Re: Changing People?
Thu, July 24, 2008 - 6:30 AMAsch - I think perhaps it's relevant to make a distinction between trying to change an action/situation/habit and trying to actually change who someone is. Babies do literally change people on a biological level - it's much more obvious how a baby physically changes a woman but men also undergo hormonal changes that result in behavioral/personality changes (if they bond with their child). You also have a very large situational change - this also changes how people feel and act since we're not separate from our environment.
We certainly effect people all the time (some more than others) - we're herd/group/social animals so we respond to signals from the herd and even more strongly to those we're invested in personally. Personally I wouldn't consider this "changing" someone (but you may, we may just have different criteria and definitions :-). Of course, one can change someone by hitting them on the head and causing brain damage! And our brains are shaped by our interactions so we are constantly influencing each other. As for telling someone to "change" and expecting it to happen, well that's generally futile (often because the person demanding "change" doesn't themselves change). We can certainly change our own patterns and habits with some effort or outside influence, which will in turn effect our interactions and relationships. However, if we enter into a relationship wanting someone to change from who they are to who we want them to be - not only are we being inauthentic in our relationship but we're also being dishonest with ourselves (and more than a little bit foolish!).
Life changes us all to greater or lesser degree. Someone who lives with an alcoholic for 20 years obviously also has their own issues and experiences so they may just be more fully expressing what led them into being and staying in a relationship with an alcoholic for 20 years - for all we know they would have chosen a different alcoholic to be in a 20 year relationship with and still have become who they are today *shrug* -
-
Re: Changing People?
Thu, July 24, 2008 - 6:31 AMAnd, er, what Leslie and Strong said! '-) -
-
-
Re: Changing People?
Thu, July 24, 2008 - 1:23 PMThe distinction between an action and someone's being is a whole nother good conversation. I think that line is blurry at best.
That's why it is so hard to change behavior, because it is so ingrained.
Identity is not static. In the case of an "alcoholic" . Someone who now begins to identify themselves as an alcoholic, then they change thier behavior to not drink alcohol. Where as the opposite was true before. They did not identify themselves as an alcoholic but they were drinking alcolhol. ( I never thought about it like this until just now) The identity changes , they are now an "alcoholic" but the behavior than go them there stops.
I recently stopped identifying myself as a person with depression, and it has made a world of difference. But it's a bit arbitrary. I have not been depressed for a long time. I had been taught that once you have depression, it is who you are.
I think it's more of a continuim that a split. Behavior-identity. If you do something long enough it becomes your identity.
What if your child dies, are you still a mom?
I say if you influence/change bahavior, you are influencing/changing identities .( because both are fluid concepts) And with that power comes responsibility ofcourse. -
-
Re: Changing People?
Thu, July 24, 2008 - 2:07 PMAsch - Indeed, the whole topic is a slippery subject in some ways if we start discussing identity. We also need to make a distinction between personality and identity (identity is really a construct, both socially and personally...it's who we think we are or someone else is).
I'm very sorry that anyone ever told you that "once you have depression, it is who you are"! Not very helpful in combating depression or accurate. I'm glad you decided to shrug that one off. It's good to be able to identify traits and behaviors in ourselves and others but labels are essentially very limiting (it's their job to limit and simplify complexity :-).
I think you touch on something regarding power and responsibility. Putting aside the appropriateness of this relationship between a therapist and their patient, since I'm assuming we're talking about adult, non-medical relationships. Unless someone is incapable of looking after themselves and making their own choices, assuming that kind of power in a relationship is trying to be a savior or parent rather than engaging in an equal adult relationship. I'm not making a judgment about that, merely pointing out that it's an codependent dynamic not an interdependent one. It may even be a necessary role to take on in a long term committed relationship when someone has a terminal illness, mental breakdown or other crisis. Some relationships start out being codependent with one partner trying to save/change the partner - to shape them into being who they'd like them to be not who they are - and the imbalance becomes more pronounced as the relationship deepens and ages. (I'm not talking about healthy mutual support here, in an interdependent relationship people share and take turns helping each other and individual and mutual growth is the natural result of this.)
It's important not to confuse therapeutic relationships (which have an innate and necessary imbalance of power and responsibility) with romantic ones or friendships. My question is why would you want to enter into a relationship with someone if you already knew that you didn't approve or like elements of who they are? And what is the person who thinks they're doing the other person a favor by saving/changing them getting out of it?
-
-
-
-
Re: Changing People?
Sun, July 27, 2008 - 5:49 PMI think we have so much trouble with the idea of changing people because I don't want to change. But, that's only what I think. I am going to change anyways regardless of whether I want to or not. To be impeccably honest, I think that it's important to ask for what we want, especially change and especially in a relationship. -
-
Re: Changing People?
Sun, July 27, 2008 - 11:05 PMasking for change is fine. demanding change is fine, dependnig on the circumstances-- and then you have to stand back and allow it to happen or not happen and decide what you really want out of the relationship and if that person is really right for you and you for him/her.
it is simple. change happens everyday but change within relationships is a process of give and take all the time. people are often unable to deal with the fact that they are not really willing to change within themselves and so they put pressure on their partners to make changes so that they can be comfortable...which is a sisyphusian task, imo.
if you want change look within. if you need your partner to change don't hold your breath too long.
no harm in asking / demanding (depending on how you do it) in relationships as it is all give and take and a process of self / other discovery.
to have real change honest communication and introspection is a requirement. this is what i think off the top.
-
