Hi everyone,
I'm curious... what's the difference between the serenity of accepting people and circumstances for what they are and admitting defeat or resigning yourself to a life of misery? Specifically, how have you seen this difference manifest itself in your life experience? I have a story to tell too but I want to hear yours first...
:-) Karen/KatieM
I'm curious... what's the difference between the serenity of accepting people and circumstances for what they are and admitting defeat or resigning yourself to a life of misery? Specifically, how have you seen this difference manifest itself in your life experience? I have a story to tell too but I want to hear yours first...
:-) Karen/KatieM
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 9:22 AMYesterday, I made a trip to town. Walking around the car-centric shopping malls, breathing in noxious fumes, watching people zip fractically every which way, my cynicism was brimming. I agreed to go to town, and I knew what I was getting into. Yesterday, amongst not accepting other people and not accepting my circumstances, I was quite happy to be cynical. My cynicism was my serenity, my escape. My cyncism is not me, I wasn't being as radically honest as I wanted to be in the moment. I was laughing, and making my own commentary. I do not accept the shopping world! I do not accept the "just gotta survive" mentality of people that continue to enslave themselves. I envision and usually live in a very different world.
I accept myself first, and I accept my situation -- I "own" my situation. This is all that I've got. Sometimes, this is a lonely place to me. Sometimes, I resign myself to solitude. I don't know what else to do (or not do.)
I am no longer accepting one-sided deals. I admit defeat and I resign myself to a life of misery because I am who and what makes me happy. -
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scorpio
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 10:16 AMI am attracted to what challenges me, not what is easy. This is the path of the warrior: To learn and unfold as a conscious being. Relationships will have a definite zing as I, even unconsciously, seek to do more "work" on my character. Lessons come with illuminating force.
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 3:39 PMmmphosis, you do seem to have an evasive mind... I was following you just fine until the last line, when you seem to imply that there really IS no difference between acceptance and defeat, and I think that's what got leslie confused too. I dare say you give us very little to work with in terms of agreeing or disagreeing -- you can't even be definitive enough to decide if we can relate to your experiences or not... and then when someone takes exception to your already hard-to-follow point of view you dig your heels in deeper and insist on not being understood. I don't want to start and argument here... I just want to say that I was looking for stories, not absolutes, in the first place. Your story was good. Your quotation of me confused things. Why do you have to turn people's words back on them? I don't think it's very helpful. And please don't turn my question back on me either.
The difference between acceptance and defeat is something I have experienced without being able to articulate it. Pinky's concise definition is brilliant. But I want stories, people!!! :-) Please! I'm dying to hear stories. -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 4:48 PMThank you. I give in. I guess the mind of an escape artist evades. Words are important to me. I am living to hear stories.
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 9:40 AMTo put it simply:
Acceptance is when you realize you can't change things and so you try to make the most of it as best you can.
Admitting defeat is when you realize you can't change things and so you wallow in your self-pity hoping that eventually someone else will change them for you, or they will change on your own.
In acceptance, you are never defeated, because you bend yourself to the situation.
In admitting defeat, you are of course defeated, because you continue to consider yourself at war with what's going on. -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 9:44 AMThat's really astute, Pinky... can you name an experience in your life where you lived this difference? -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Sun, April 15, 2007 - 8:10 AMSorry it took so long to answer this; I really had to think about it...
I was committed to a wonderful man for a few months shy of four years. I still love him, and I even still occasionally dream of the same future I imagined while we were together: you know, the whole marriage, kids, growing old American dream cliché... I was still only 17 when I first committed to him. I was fresh out of a promiscuous lifestyle, and was craving stability. I don't have to tell you how good things were - he managed to tie down an attention whore like myself for over three years: IT WAS THAT GOOD. We faced every relationship obstacle in our path head-on and always came out on top. We faced and lasted through some issues some married couples never have to, and may not have the strength to last through.
But in time, we got lazy. We both neglected to put in as much effort into our relationship as we did other aspects of our lives, and things began falling apart. While I grew unhappy and frustrated with our situation, I hate hurting people, and while I missed my old promiscuous ways, a good stable relationship was more rewarding and fulfilling to me...but it wasn't really good anymore. I eventually admitted defeat to some extent, likely more subconsciously than otherwise, but I preferred the evil I knew. I wanted things to be different, and we talked, but I guess we just weren't as adept at communicating as we would have liked to believe. By admitting defeat, I lived everyday in a sour relationship - with a wonderful guy still - but the relationship was sour. I forced myself agony by not doing anything to help myself or the situation - I just laid dormant hoping, wishing, PRAYING something would change for the better.
Maybe I'm just too damn impatient, but I didn't last longer than a few months in that position. I decided to take charge and make a change I could make on my own instead of doing one part of a two-man job and hoping my fiancé would pick up the slack. I accepted the situation as it was, and as much as I would have preferred that the relationship be repaired and gained back to the harmony it once had, I decided to cease involvement with my fiancé beyond close friendship, opening the both of us up to fix ourselves individually, which should allow us to try again with a new beginning and a stronger foundation should fate provide.
In admitting defeat, I had doomed myself to a lack of control over my own emotional satisfaction. I let my happiness, well-being, and emotional stability almost completely rest in the hands of another person. While the person you love and devote yourself to always has a strong impact on these things, and well should, I had given him more control over me than I had over myself - and that's never healthy.
In eventually accepting things, I regained the control over myself I had previously surrendered, and while it still stung horribly, I put the responsibility of my well-being back into my own hands, ensuring my ability to eventually recover and heal, which will eventually lead to my ability to try again.
I am my only constant, and I've been having to learn to trust myself more than others. -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Sun, April 15, 2007 - 3:39 PMpinky said: I am my only constant, and I've been having to learn to trust myself more than others.
that is a lesson it took me a long time to learn, but it is such a freeing one... because when you know that you can trust yourself, you have a kind of security that cannot be taken from you. when you know that you can trust yourself to do what's right for you, to handle any situation that comes up, then you are truly free.
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 2:00 PMOh, I like that, Pinky!
That's something I think I can work with. I sometimes find myself wondering whether I accept or admit defeat. But I wouldn't have been able to put it so eloquently. It is a thin line between one and the other isn't it? And in some situations I walk a fine line between them, sometimes leaning one way, sometimes the other.
Maybe being a bit more aware of the difference will help me figure out where I really am and respond accordingly. -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 3:28 PMI agree, Blair, it seems to be all about perception, and choice... and a very thin line.
I'm still waiting for a story from Pinky...
:-)
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 10:13 AMum, ok, i think perhaps i have a different slant on the world, particularly in the department of cynicism. ouch, really, to me "resigning myself to a life of misery because that is who i am" is one of the most depressing things i've seen in a while.
peace and serenity in life begins by understanding the difference between you and the rest of the world, along with the connectedness of you and the rest of the world. it is my experience that cynicism and resignation occur when someone forgets that they are indeed part of the world around them, and/or when they have not yet learned that their experience of the world is *** entirely *** self-generated. ENTIRELY.
i see accepting how things are as the sign of a mature adult. that means -- in this moment, you accept that what is, simply is what is. your job, your spouse, your noisy neighbors, global warming, the aids epidemic, your bank balance, this is simply what is.
'what is' has no actual meaning until you give it one... and you can give it the meaning that works for you. unfortunately some people use their personal power to give it negative meaning, and to use the way things are as some kind of evidence that the world is a bad place, or other people are bad people, or an entire list of trumped-up meanings.
i prefer to be a little more selective, and a little more self-supportive than that. after all, my mission here on this planet is to find happiness and satisfaction in my life. that's it. that is my mission. and the way i do that is by looking for the things around me, and the things inside me, that give me that experience.
i'm really not so interested in making myself miserable. so when i go out and find myself downtown among a world of busy office workers in dark suits scrambling from their job to their commute with a preoccupied or disconnected look on their face, i don't let that affect me negatively... rather i find my personal gratitude that i no longer live that way, and then i shift my focus, and look for the signs that there is happiness all around me... and voila! once i begin to look, what do you know? it was there all along. for real.
and then i generate the inspiration within myself to make a postitive difference... few things are as inspiring to me in my business as a job-search coach than seeing the physical presence of people who are unhappy in their jobs. it doesn't have to be that way, and i have a way to help them... that right there shifts my experience from negative to one of possibilities.
my life is a series of choices about whether a situation, or a person, or an activity, works for me, gives me more happiness in my life. when it does, then i go for it. when it doesn't, i look and see if there is something inside myself that i can shift in order to get it to work for me and i shift that. usually that is simply my own attitude, but occasionally it is something ore drastic, like giving up a friend, or moving to a new place.
and if there is nothing i can do -- or more importantly, nothing i am willing to do -- then i accept how it is, and try to minimize its affect on me. for instance, i have had friends who i have lost because they began to use speed -- and once someone does that, there is not a whole hell of a lot anyone else can do. so in those cases, i chose to end our physical friendship, but to send them the love that i had for them in my thoughts instead. i have no interest in witnessing the spiraling down into despair of a speed freak. harsh? maybe. but true.
and i certainly will occasionally admit defeat -- but by that i mean that i occasionally do declare that i've done as much as i want to do or am able to do with a situation or a person -- but it is rarely negative. more often it is actually a statement of freedom and moving on. like when you realize your unworkable job isn't really going to change, so you stop fighting and find a new job that does.
and resigning myself to a life of misery?????? holy shit. i can't even imagine why anyone would think there is anything noble or positive in doing such a thing. our lives are entirely created by our choices... by who we choose to be around, where we choose to live, what we choose to do with our time. if you are miserable, then you need to examine your choices, and make some new ones that will bring you happiness.
sometimes (really mostly) that is as simple as choosing to give up the shield of being miserable and resigned, and to wake up and start actually living and creating your life again. sometimes it takes more drastic action, like getting the courage up to change jobs, to leave a bad marriage, to end a dysfunctional relationship with a family member.
but resignation and misery is the choice of weakness and cowardice and i honesty believe there are very few people who are truly weak or cowards. exhausted maybe. in the dark about how to actually affect change in their life, maybe. but "i resign myself to a life of misery" is a total absolute loser stance, and a self-fulfilling prophecy. why in the world would anyone every choose that?
we each have the power to create our experience of the world around us. use your power to bring yourself happiness and contenment, rather than to generate misery like some kind of defense.
i guess the short version of this is: if you are miserable, it is probably because you have a miserable attitude about something. shift your attitude, take on a positive perspective and things will change. and if you can't do that, then really, find a situation where you aren't miserable. because miserable is NEVER the right choice. EVER. -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 10:53 AMI appreciate you posting. And, I honor that we live in very different worlds, and express different words. We are connected. Your world may be one of busyness, and my world may be one of idleness. Your world may be one of success and positive thinking, my world may be one of embracing failure and inviting anger. "miserable is NEVER the right choice. EVER." These are words, they don't mean much to me. I don't need to be right. There is no right or wrong, there just is.
You are right about cynicism. My cynicism no longer serves me. Yesterday, I was cynical and I was watching myself be cynical.
The words "resigning myself to a life of misery" come from the original post. I repeated these words because they express to me the difficult path that I am on. And I realize that "misery" is someone else's judgement about defeat. I see where my going for defeat approach probably doesn't work very well for a career coach, and I honor your choices too. To answer your question, why in the world would anyone every choose that? Choose weakness and cowardice sometime and watch what happens. Most amazing things happen for me! And, I agree with you that amazing things happen using your coaching methods too. I am being honest. And, I am "all grown up" whatever that means. I am selfish. I won't walk away from people I love regardless of how quickly/slowly they are killing themselves. I am going in defeat. I am embracing failure because this is the most honest thing for me to do in this moment. I invite anger because who else is going to do this? Misery loves company. The gas tank is empty and there is nowhere to buy more. The truth is we are all going to die. I may bend and break. I won't continue to live a lie. -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 6:35 PMthanks for giving me a chanc to clarify this.
when i say that misery is NEVER the right choice -- i don't mean as in right vs. wrong -- i don't believe in right vs. wrong as some written-in-stone duality. right/wrong is always situational.
i mean right as in it works for you -- it gives you what you want -- it is productive and meaningful and lifts up your experience of life. that is my goal, so when i face choices, the one that is "right" for me is the one that gives me power and joy.
perhaps it would be more accurate to say that misery is never the powerful choice. and the one that improves your life is almost always the right choice.
and really, mmphosis, i confess that i still don't understand yur point. i dont need to choose weakness and cowardice to understand the experience -- i have been there in the past. it is the way i lived before i figured out that i didn't have to do that. and to me, failure is not defeat. failure is one situation not working as you intended. defeat is giving up entirely. two different things.
you are right, our cynicism never serves us. it never really does. we use it as a protection, but it never really does protect us, does it? it just makes us a little more distant from other people, and that tends to give the illusion of protecting us. but really, it just serves to distance us even further. that is the biggest lie that most people live in my experience.
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 3:44 PM<<sometimes (really mostly) that is as simple as choosing to give up the shield of being miserable and resigned, and to wake up and start actually living and creating your life again. sometimes it takes more drastic action, like getting the courage up to change jobs, to leave a bad marriage, to end a dysfunctional relationship with a family member. >>
Yes! I have often thought that when I am miserable I simply lack the courage to do anything about it. I think an important distinction is that acceptance is about responsibility for oneself, whereas defeat (synonymous with self-pity) tries to pawn off that responsiblity on circumstances or people. -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 6:25 PMexcellent distinction -- yes, when you take responsibility for yourself, you cannot be defeated. and i think there definitely is a self-pity aspect to defeat. when you get that there is always something you can do to shift how you are perceiving, and therefore experiencing, a situation, then you cannot be defeated.
and pointing the finger and trying to lay blame on other people or on situations is always a sign to me that someone is not willing to take real responsibility.
misery comes when you start believing you are helpless. but since you are never helpless, it really is just a trap, and it is one you can escape.
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Mon, April 16, 2007 - 11:35 AM
"i can't even imagine why anyone would think there is anything noble or positive in doing such a thing."
Me either! this always confounds me.
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Thu, April 12, 2007 - 10:28 PMAcceptance refers to the experience of a situation or a person without an intention to change that situation.
Defeat means that you have already tried to change that situation or person and now realize that you can't.
Sadly, I was defeated by a past lover's bad habits. My ability to change her penchant for self-destruction was nil. However, I could not accept her for what she was because that meant embracing her course toward alcoholism and poverty. Therefore, I accepted that we could not be a couple, and ran for my life.
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Fri, April 13, 2007 - 8:53 AM<<<what's the difference between the serenity of accepting people and circumstances for what they are and admitting defeat or resigning yourself to a life of misery? >>>
feels like these could even be different sides of the same coin. the difference is, we get to choose. without changing the outside situation at all, we can mourn what is not, or celebrate what is. we can trust that the universe is essentially for our good, or we can defend ourselves believing the world is out to get us. we can love, and unify, or we can judge, and separate. -
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Sun, April 15, 2007 - 5:44 AMSet acceptance and defeat aside and simply live your life; that is my story.
It is your story too, whether you choose it or not.
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Re: Acceptance versus Defeat
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 4:58 PMdefeat accompanies a fight. Acceptance avoids a fight. For example, I was sent to San Francisco from the Yoga Farm to work in the center here. I did not really want to come. I didn't feel up to it and it seemed like it might be the wrong thing to do. But rarely are things what they seem. Unless you are very wise, you cannot see all ends to an action, some of which may not manifest for years to come. Needless to say, I could have fought the decision, and if I had won, I still would have lost. I would have created discord and enmity with the people in charge, and with whoever would have been sent in my place. Rather I accepted the charge, the mission if you would, and thus earned respect, and found myself in a challenging situation, which, though difficult, is not miserable. The difference is attitude. Suppose I had fought and lost. Then I would have created discord and enmity and still been in this difficult situation, but with a much less receptive attitude. And things haven't been so bad here after all.
Defeat implies attachment to the result of one's actions and interactions. Acceptance implies detachment from the results. When I worked as a server in the kitchen at the Farm, I'd find myself getting attached to the idea of something being perfect (or what passes for perfect in my perception). As soon as I formed this attachment, I'd find myself stressing out to maintain or create this standard around me. This in turn stressed out everyone around me that didn't have this attachment or perception. Once I let it go, things flowed easier between me and those around me, and I found that what actually happened was not really any better or worse than what I wanted to happen. Just incomparable and different. Again, the reactions were much more pleasant and loving once I let go of thinking that my way was the right way.
Defeat comes from fear of loss. Acceptance comes the love of reception. Often I've found myself in situation where I though I might lose something that I thought I needed. When that happened, I'd feel my body and mind tense, and in the end, if I lost it, I'd feel defeated, like I'd lost a fight. The fear manifested and became an losing battle. However, when I've practiced acceptance, I've found that I have been given things spontaneously that I didn't even know I wanted or needed. By accepting myself as having what I need, and loving my current situation, that love manifested and became the next step or phase of need-satisfaction. While I was afraid of letting go of what I had, I was also implicitly afraid of receiving what the world had to give once I was emptied a bit. By releasing this fear, I became receptive to what the greater consciousness knew I needed, which was far more accurate than what I thought I needed.
Defeat is illusion. Acceptance is life. If you are defeated in this life, it is because you've accepted defeat, and those attitudes which lead to defeat. In reality, there is nothing in this world to defeat you but your own thought.