yin~yang

topic posted Fri, September 1, 2006 - 10:27 PM by  §t®ngV◊i©e
I've been reading a bit about Taoism. As I was reading some of Tao The Watercourse Way I got to thinking about what it said about how western culture and religions have the focus and goal(or stated goal anyway) of defeating darkness, or having good triumph over bad that kind of thing. But the whole concept of the yin and yang is that you can not have one without the other, that the goal is balance of the two not to try to get rid of one...which is ridiculous if you need one for the other.(the preceeding possibly badly paraphrased by me) A passage mentioned from Lao-tzu (the author of The Tao Te Ching...well there is debate about if he was one guy...and what his name was ect) says

"When everyone knows beauty as beautiful, there is already ugliness;
when everyone knows good as goodness, there is already evil;
"to be" and "not to be" arise mututally;
Difficult and easy are mututally realized;
Long and short are mutually contrasted;
High and low are mutually posited;...
Before and after are in mutual sequence."

and that makes sense to me. Doesn't seem very shockin or amazing just simply makes sense.

So I wondered how most people viewed darkness and light, good and evil ect...and how those views were shaped or have changed over your life.
  • Re: yin~yang

    Sat, September 2, 2006 - 12:04 AM
    darkness is just the absence of light. so maybe evil is the absence of good. can there be good without evil? certainly not in this world. i mostly view good and evil as black and white. my views of good and evil were mostly shaped by christianity. I have gotten away from some of my early christian beliefs. There always needs to be a balance of some kind. so i can see why Taoism says you need evil to have good.
    • Re: yin~yang

      Sat, September 2, 2006 - 11:22 AM
      the impression I get is that it is less that you need to have one to have the other..but that you simply do have them both. That they are two sides of the same coin...all one thing.
      • Re: yin~yang

        Tue, September 12, 2006 - 3:54 PM
        "That they are two sides of the same coin...all one thing."

        i totally believe this. when you change perspectives the concepts of evil and good change, right and wrong change.
  • Re: yin~yang

    Mon, September 4, 2006 - 5:18 PM
    I think about how you wouldn't know good if there weren't evil, otherwise, if everything were always good then how would we know it was good? If everyone were always happy, then how would we know it was happy, without sad to contrast it?
  • Re: yin~yang

    Wed, September 6, 2006 - 12:17 PM
    "Have you said yes to even a single joy? Then, O my friends, you have said yes, also, to all woe."

    ~ Nietszche
    I'm going from memory there, and may not have it exactly right, but that's the gist of it. I came across that idea at an early age and it always seemed reasonable to me, if a bit pessimistic.

    My take on the good/evil question is that , yeah, we realize that pain and suffering are a part of life and it is not possible to eradicate it, but still you do what you can to allay suffering (or at least try not to compound it) and add to joy.
    • Re: yin~yang

      Wed, September 6, 2006 - 3:10 PM
      I won't say that we never need to do things that are direct attacks on but I think if the idea is to keep things in balance...then we will be far more successful as it seems that focusing all of our might against "evil" is exactly what makes it. How many of the horrors of history and individuals have come about becuase someone decided to get rid of evil? First someone decides that all whatever people are evil...then they do terrible things to them and then other people do more terrible things to stop them. Not that I think it's wrong to try to stop them, but how often do we stop tradgedies and how often do we create more? and how often is the fight less about a universal "right" and more about opinions and different sides?

      I would say that hitler was evil, and he needed to be stopped...and I am not sure of any other way to do it once it got to that point. It needed to be earlier. I don't have any answers really. Just thoughts that run around in my head and questions that want to be asked.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: yin~yang

    Wed, September 6, 2006 - 1:43 PM
    On a personal level, I like this story:

    THE TWO WOLVES

    One evening an old Cherokee told his grandson about a battle that goes on inside people.
    He said, "My son, the battle is between 2 wolves.

    One is Evil. It is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

    The other is Good. It is love joy, peace, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith."

    The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf wins?"

    The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."
    • Re: yin~yang

      Wed, September 6, 2006 - 11:40 PM
      Can you blow the line away?

      Merge

      To experience this world
      You have acquired a body
      Through this body
      You can experience the
      Essential nature of this
      Illusion called physicality

      Ah! Life in duality

      Up
      Down
      Female (not male)
      Male (not female)

      Do you require more examples?

      However,

      The real question
      — IS —

      Can you be comfortable (doubtful!)
      Can you keep in your skin (barely!)

      When you realize that
      To become the whole
      You must become the merge
      Allow yourself to become
      The union of extremes

      How extreme can you be?

      Will you even dare?
      To touch this line

      Or will you jump in
      And blown the line away

      Between
      The not you
      And you

      What will you feel when
      You let all the opposing forces
      Do the holy rock and roll
      Down deep in your soul

      Just like a big ‘ol car battery
      The sparks fly and the juice flows

      When the universal “plus”
      And the great cosmic “minus“
      Merge inside you

      Can ‘ya dig it?
  • Re: yin~yang

    Mon, December 17, 2007 - 8:04 AM

    There is no doubt true evil exist
    in the world today but it may
    not be what we think or
    rather more to the point, perhaps
    it is precisely the very nature of
    our unquestioned thought processes
    which tend to do the most harm
    in this world of the mundane…

    Everyone it seems has this
    prepackaged ideal of what it means
    to be enlightened, perhaps it is
    very much as Caroline Myss
    has discribed it, as “Spiritual Madness”
    which is most certainly not a matter
    of what we ordinarily might think
    but more to the point of what
    some have termed 'spiritual emergency'.
    In Taoist traditions initial awakening
    is merely a first but none-the-less
    essential step in the develpmental
    process. Where as in typical
    western bastardized traditions
    the ultimate goal appears to be
    either one of two things that now
    in many cases would almost appear
    to be inseparable in so many minds
    as simply the way things are. Either
    you seek this so called enlightened
    state of being as an end unto itself
    as if it alone would solve all of your
    earthly problems like some kind
    of mythical holy grail - the stuff
    that western legends and wars
    are made of, or rather there are
    those who would presume to go
    directly to the source of eternity
    and become minor Gods them-
    selves - legends in thier own
    minds not unlike this cult of ego
    so prevalent around Holly Wood
    this days with the ever sacred
    red string around the wrist
    as a sign of assension - direct
    to the source.

    But in this melding of east meets
    west somethings gets lost or go
    missing and the saintly image of
    actual humility tends to go down
    the drain.

    I Know that this is a bit off topic
    the Tao as it is said, gives
    birth to infinite worlds
    always present within you
    but if you would seek to
    grasp it you would fail
    you cann't know it but
    you can be it at peace
    in your life.

    Do we understand how
    the small is large or
    how emptiness seeks
    fulfillment. The process
    of awakening is no great
    mystery, what is rare
    is to live it free within
    the mundane.

    “In spiritual alchemy, before primordial true yang has been restored,
    one should empty the mind to seek to fill the belly. Once primordial
    true yang has returned, one should fill the belly and also empty the
    mind. The achievement of emptying the mind is the means to operate
    the true fire, to burn away the mundane energy of acquired conditioning
    until one is freed from it.”

    Taoist I Ching


    Perhaps it is just that simple.
    But do we know the firing
    process of triplex unity or the
    opening that is known to some
    as the mysterious female -
    this opening within the
    conjunction of yin and yang?



    “The mysterious pass is a most recondite and abstuse pass-

    ageway. It is also called the door of life and death, the

    chamber of vivifing and killing, the border of divinity and

    humanity, the gate of punishment and reward, the opening

    of being and nonbeing, the lair of spirit and energy, the

    ground of emptiness and fulfillment, the crossroads, and

    many other names. All of these terms depict this one open-

    ing. The mysterious pass is another name for the mysteri-

    ous female. Because its recondite subtlety is unfathomable,

    it is called the mysterious pass; because yin and yang are

    herein, it is called the mysterious female. Really it is just

    this one opening.


    “The ignorant who do not know this sometimes take the

    space below the heart and above the genitals to be the

    mysterious pass; some consider the center of the umbilical

    region to be the mysterious pass; some call the coccyx the

    mysterious pass; some take the center of the spine, where

    it joins the ribs, to be the mysterious pass. These are all

    wrong. The mysterious pass has no fixed position; if it

    had a fixed position, it would not be the mysterious pass.

    “Ch'en Hsu-pai referred to the point where thought arises

    as the mysteriouus pass; this seems to be correct, but really

    is not. The point where thought arises already has fallen

    into the realm of temporal form; how can it be considered

    the mysterious pass?


    “I now clearly point out to you that the mysterious pass

    lies in subtle abstraction, where being and nonbeing in-

    terpenetrate. Understanding Reality says, 'Seek the image

    of being in the subtle; seek the true vitality in the recon-

    dite. From this being and nonbeing interpenetrate; before

    you have seen it, how can you imagine it?' Also the Four

    Hundred Words on the Gold Elixir says, 'This opening is

    not an ordinary aperture, made by Heaven and Earth to-

    gether, it is called the lair of spirit and energy. Within

    are the vitalities of Water and Fire,' These passages truly

    point out the opening of the mysterious pass.

    “However, there are few people in the world who are in

    genuine earnest. Most cannot put forth intensive effort

    or endure long perseverance; also they do not seek out

    the fundamental true principles, but just think of the mys-

    terious pass and mysterious female in terms of physical

    locations and do some minor techniques which are at-

    tached either to voidness or to form, falsely imagining

    that they will attain the Tao thereby. This is pitiful.

    “If one is a true stalwart, one can decisively set aside all

    entanglements, so that all objects are empty, and concen-

    trate on the matter of most urgent importance, call on

    teachers, form associations with worthy companions,

    never changing one's determination; then one can even-

    tually come to know the mysterious pass, see the myster-

    ious female, and finally comprehend essence and life.

    Students should work on this.”


    “The great Tao is uncontrived,

    based on spontaneity;

    But until the work is complete,

    one cannot adapt with autonomy.”


    “The Inner Teachings of Taoism”

    Chang Po-tuan

    Learn to die before you die, it is said. Yet to do so prematurely
    would mean to become a nihilistic quietist of no use
    to anyone let alone to essence or life.
  • Re: yin~yang

    Tue, December 18, 2007 - 2:43 AM
    Light/dark, this is about contrast. Neither can be better than the other unless there is a context to it. If I am looking for something I like it to be light. If I am trying to sleep I like it to be dark.

    We gage the "distance" between things by the contrast, the Light/Dark contrast is a good example, but you can use anything.

    Likewise, Good/Evil. Here the contrast is, again, highly subjective. We must remember that what we believe personally is not what everyone believes. What you think is "good" may very well be considered "evil" somewhere else.

    These contrasts are judgements, and if we judge too harshly we will suffer from our narrowness. Perception is the difference between our anticipation of an event and the acctuality of it. Let yours be yours, and mine be mine.
  • Re: yin~yang

    Mon, January 7, 2008 - 9:02 PM
    English writer Alan Moore once used the analogy of soil. Good, rich, black soil is made of decaying plant life; it's made of death. But from that foul morass springs glorious life. In a like fashion, when good decays into corruption, the humus which forms is Evil. But from the evil can come startling goodness!

    It's a circular process; a closed system which is neverending.

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